JUDAS ISCARIOT - SINNER OR SAINT?
82
How can Fulfilling Prophetic Scripture be an Unforgivable Sin
Over the years we have viewed and judged this man Judas as a traitor, and betrayer, as he is reported in The Bible to have betrayed Jesus.
It is time now to take a closer look at this.
Almighty God, and Jesus Christ The Son of God, being God are onmnipotent and omniscient, meaning that they know all, past present and future.
Therefore before the Old Testament was even thought of let alone written Both Father and Son, knew that for God the Father to be reconciled again with sinful man, Jesus would become the perfect sacrifice, He would have to die and be ressurected in order for sin and death to be defeated.
This was God Our Father's decision, it was His choice and it was agreed to by Jesus, His Son. This decided, Almighty God reveals to His Prophet that a Messiah would be born, that this Messiah would be handed over to be judged, tortured and killed. God also reveals that the one to turn over the Messiah would accept money for his actions and later repent, but out of remorse for delivering up an innocent man would take his own life. God reveals this to his prophet hundreds of years before Jesus.
Thus Both God and Jesus, would have known that Judas was chosen, pre-destined as the one to flfill the prophecies of the Old Testament, and more, how it was to be carried out, down to the exact moment. This cannot be disputed if we are to believe that God is God.
It would only make sense, with this being said, that God and Jesus, would not ask of any man to do something sinful, that would cost them their opportunity to be with God.
Even long before His time, to be taken and killed, Jesus relates to His Apostles:
Matthew 17:22 20:18 26:2
It is truth recorded in The Bible, that Judas went to Caiaphas The High Priest of The Jews, and conspired to point out Jesus to Caiaphas' followers and soldiers, and received 30 pieces of silver for doing what he had to do.
It is also truth recorded in The Bible, that he pointed out his best friend, teacher and master with a kiss. We have to ask ourselves though, "How can this be seen as a betrayal, when Judas was pre-chosen and was merely fulfilling his responsibility as set out by God to God's Prophet in fulfillment of what was prophesied 400 years earlier. Judas was merely doing what God expected and willed him to do.
It is also truth though and recorded in The Bible that after realizing that he Judas had truly delivered The Christ, The Messiah to his death, Judas repented and gave back the money. Yes, to late to rectify his mistake, but still he repented.
The only thing we have left to look at is the fact, also recorded in The Bible, that Judas committed suicide.
Let's examine this. Jesus is being crucified as Judas is hanging himself. Before he dies Jesus tells the repentant sinner being crucified next to him, that he will be with Jesus in Paradise. Jesus also asks The Father, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." He didn't say forgive those except Judas.
Nobody was present when Judas hung himself. Nobody knows whether in his last dying Breath Judas ask Jesus for His forgiveness, but we do know for a fact that Jesus asked The Father, for the forgiveness of all that sinned against him that day.
It is a little known fact, yet still fact, established through historical documentation like "The Gospel or Epistle of Judas, a non-published Gospel, due to the fact that Judas hung himself, a stigma that could not be attached to the writing of The Bible, that Judas and Jesus were the closest of friends. Jesus was closer to Judas than any of the other Apostles valuing Judas as his closest friend, and shared with Judas secrets that no one else knew.
Does it make any sense that Jesus the omniscient,omnipotent Son of God would share anything let alone some of his most guarded secrets of heaven and eternity, with an enemy,especially if that person had no possible right to redemption? I think not.
It will be my pleasure, when my time comes to shake the hand of Judas, for without him helping to fulfill the prophesies of the old testament, I would not be saved nor would I be in heaven.
Thank you Judas for your contribution to my salvation........Amen!
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (5)
- Funny
- Awesome (3)
- Beautiful (2)
- Interesting (2)
CommentsLoading...
It didn't take you long to get ahold of my hub. I just posted it. You must be clairvoiant. Thank you for your response. and God Bless. Brother Dave Mathews
No clairvoiant or any of that nonsense! I was at my desk when I heard "you got mail." simple as that! hehehe :)
Thank you I'm at mine too answering mail too.
Dave, Judas caught a bad rap over the years. As you stated Jesus requested the Father to forgive all.That includes Judas. It includes Peter's denials. It includes all.
Jesus could not have accomplished his destiny without Judas. Judas was the hingepin.
Unfortunately, society has labelled him as the "betrayer" and all that. Perhaps there is a lesson in here for us.
When we're betrayed, could it be that God is using that person to redirect us away from something or is that person there to fulfill some part of a vision God gave to us?
Wanna get real heavy? Since God knew all along who it would be that would play this role and Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh, does it not follow Jesus knew from the beginning who it would be which may account for the closeness between Jesus and Judas?
Brother James:That was my point exactly,Jesus being God could not and would not ask just anybody to stepup like Judas was asked. It would have to be a very close and trusted friend. In today's vernacular I could not trust or ask a total stranger, or someone I barely knew, to step up and be my best man at my wedding, or the godfather to my child,or intrust them with anything of value or importance, in my life. Only my most trusted and closest friend would I approach.
He was forgiven by GOD and so should we, thats my opinion Dave, Thanks for this thought provoking hub, Maita
Maita: if you happen to run into Judas in heaven one day, don't forget to forgive him and also thank him. Jesus would not have been able to carry out his mission on earth were it not for a friend like Judas. He was Jesus closest friend among the twelve.
Good hub and explaining something I have thought over for ages, especially as we have Jesus telling Judas to go do what he has to do.
It also (coincidently) ties in with something Sanctus Vesania and myself have been discussing, and if factual, sets aside the ONLY substantive argument against universal salvation.
Was that your intention?
My only other observation is, how do we deal with:
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world,I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
....and the bit that tells us it would have been better that Judas had never been born....why would that be, if Judas had been under orders?
I'm not trying to poke holes, as stated this has fascinated me, and I support the notion, but all scripture must agree with itself before we can assume a new concept that changes the whole history of traditional religion.
Especially if we need to dispense with other scriptures to make it (the bible) fit our concept.
If Judas did, with full knowledge, cut himself off from salvation in order that Gods word may be fulfilled, then he was truly a selfless man, and would deserve our thanks, should we ever meet him.
John
Aguasilver, John my brother and friend, in answer to your questions may I first refer you to another hub of mine "A relationship between you and your God". As you may or may not know, I am prone to receiving dream revelations about God. My spirit, during the time when my body is sleeping travels in time, and certain specific things are revealed to me things I cannot forget.
You might think me crazy. You might think me off the wall,some lunitic, or maybe even some "Druggy" but I assure you I am none of these,simply an average man, who for some reason God has chosen to reveal specific things to, and all I am doing is allowing myself to be the hands at the computer for God's Holy Spirit.
In this one believe it or not, I was or rather my spirit was present during a conversation between God and Lucifer, now better known as Satan.
My intent with this writing about Judas was to draw attention to the fact that Jesus being both human and God, with omnicient and omnipotent power as God already knew, even before being birthed as a child that on the day and time chosen by His Father God, would face the humiliation of having his closest and dearest earthly friend turn him over to Caiaphas and the sanheddron to be crucified. This was already pre-destined for Judas, it was a part of The Father's Will.
Your reference to John 17:12 the term "Son of Perdition" is a reference To Satan the Arch-Angel who fell from Grace by challenging God's Authority. As for the bit about Judas being better off had he not been born. In a way I agree, because Judas being human, being the best and closest friend and Apostle of Jesus, without full knowledge of the fact that by turning Jesus over to Caiaphas Jesus was to be crucified, lets face it if you ratted out your best friend to someone in say The Mafia and your friend was murdered, without you knowing what was going to happen, How would you feel once you learned all the facts. Not only did Judas return the 30 pieces of silver, finally realizing that he had turn over his best friend and realizing that he had in fact turned over the true Messiah of the Hebrews'faith, but then he learns that Jesus is Crucified. WOW what a guilt trip that must have been. Thank goodness Judas had the presence of mind to ask Jesus for forgiveness before he hanged himself, and as we know Jesus final prayer to The Father was, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." This prayer would also include Judas.
You have one small flaw in your thinking though, Judas did not cut himself off from salvation. Jesus through his last prayer to The Father saw to that.
I feel my last paragraph is most significant. Since Jesus has already forgiven Judas and welcomed him home, why do we as Christians hang such a bad wrap on him. Further more Jesus Himself tells us, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Matthew 7:1 Jesus also reminds us in John 8:7 "Let you who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Your Brother and God's servant and child,
Brother Dave Mathews
ps. I am a Christian / Catholic and my confirmation name is Gabriel.
Hi Dave,
How do we know that Judas asked for forgiveness before he committed suicide? - it's not recorded, and if he committed suicide how could he be forgiven? - I'm a simple believer, no denomination although I hang out with the 'pentebaptists', but if you are a Catholic (capital C) then you would know your churches opinions on suicide.
Don't get me wrong, declaring that Jesus on the cross forgave everyone and brought about universal salvation is attractive to me as an evangelist, it makes life a whole lot simpler when you remove hell from the equasion, but I also know that I must keep with the bible.
If I ever decide that somehow God did NOT correctly deliver the whole truth to us by divine revelation, then I open a can of worms that cannot be closed.
If one verse is dispensable, then what else can go?
Concerning the son of perdition, why would Satan be called that 'in order that scripture should be fulfilled' - what scripture, we need both sets of the bookends to make it work.
Our task is to make our understanding fit the bible, not the bible to fit our understanding.
John
Dear John,my brother: Let me pose three questions to you.
Since nobody was present at the time of Judas death, how do we know He didn't ask?
With all the room a buzz, after Jesus announced that one of the 12 would betray him, as He dismissed Judas to go and do what he had to do, how do we know that at that point, before he left the room, Judas didn't ask Jesus for His forgiveness? Don't forget, every Apostle was either denying it was them, or asking if it was them, all at the same time.
Lastly like I suggested earlier, if you had ratted out your best friend to his worst enemy, and then you discovered that that same enemy murdered your friend, would you not beg your friend's forgiveness even though he was dead, hoping that his spirit could hear you and maybe forgive you? Also Judas finally realizes and admits in the scriptures that Jesus The Christ he has wrongfully betrayed.** look at Matthew 27:3-6 **
As far as the Term Son of Perdition is concerned, "Perdition" in the Webster's Dictionary refers to Hell and The prince of Darkness, or the Son of Perdition, are terms used to refer to Satan. For a Biblical reference Please see** II Thessalonians: 2-3 the term is used by Paul here.
John I stand behind my submissions and I believe the Biblical scriptures back me up.
Hi. I don't wish to be contentious, but Satan was never an archangel; this is a false teaching (you are invited to read my hub, "Is Lucifer the Devil?"). And, Jesus said Judas was a devil (John 6:70). He was purposed to accomplish God's will. Satan was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44) and likewise, took Jesus' life and Judas took his own life, while tormented.
Universal salvation is a lie, for "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" is speaking about the Jews who put Jesus on the cross. Jesus said He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (Mat 15:24). That day, the thief that confessed Him as Lord was saved. Jesus didn't even resond to the other who had the attitude of entitlement, mocking Him "Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!". God does not hear sinners (John 9:31).
Jesus said in Mark 14:21, "For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."
Jesus said in John 17:12, "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." Judas was the son of perdition (headed for destruction).
I realize you teach what you understand; with all that Jesus said about Judas, we must not make Him out to be a liar.
Hi,
I am a Christian and a strong believer of the bible. I am not posting this to debate or anything but to show what the bible actually says regarding this issue:
The bible says in John 17:12 (Jesus prayed to the father to protect his disciples) "While I (Jesus)was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled."
From this verse alone I am certain that Judas is not in heaven.
Dave, we can all discuss from suppositions, but I start from the opinion that my bible contains ALL the information any believer needs to find salvation.
Once we have managed that, we can explore further, and believe me I have, however I have always known to evaluate my findings against scripture, and found that the more I discovered, the harder it became to stay close to God.
In the end, I have chosen to stay close to God, and if what I find out contradicts the bible and cannot be reconciled to scripture, I follow scripture.
Praise God, aguasilver ~ the Enemy sought to deceive you, but you are God's elect and have chosen to remain faithful. The sheep do not follow a gospel contrary to God's Word.
Hi Judah's Daughter, my stance above cost me seven years study time to reach, and it hurt, but then I guess God allowed me to explore long dark avenues in order that I could see where they led.
In my experience they all led away from God, no matter how enticing they seemed at the start.
But being of an inquisitive nature, I followed all of them, until I found the error, then turned back (repented) and made my way back home.
Now I can speak about what I found, but nobody has to listen, and we all have to find our own way to the truth.
aguasilver, God is faithful ~ amen!! I pray He will shed His light to all that are being pulled away by seducing spirits ~ the days are shortening until He comes and we must stand firm.
It's very obvious that Judas is in hell right now. He had the choice not to betray Jesus but he did so anyway. Then he had the chance to repent but didn't do it, so now he's burning in hell.
Savior_of_None,My friend, I do not believe you read all of my writing on this matter, for I discuss the fact that Judas was pre-destined by God Our Father to be the one to fulfill the scriptures, meaning he had no choice but to carryout the task of betraying Jesus.
As for whether he repented of his sins or not I direct you to Matthew 27: 3-6 which states "Then Judas,which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned,repented himself,and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,saying,I have sinned in that I betrayed the innocent blood. And they said what is that to us? see thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed and went and hanged himself."
Clearly the story of Judas is one full of ambivalence. We're taught that Judas betrayed Jesus by his own free-will; but we often forget that before the foundation of the world, Judas was chosen to be the betrayer of Jesus Christ. If Judas had not done it; then someone else would had to have done it.
I'd also like to point out two things. First of all, when Judas went to betray Jesus, he had Satan inside of him.
Luke 22: 1-4
Luke 22
1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
John 13: 21-27
21When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Right there we have two witnesses stating that Judas was possessed by Satan. Not only this, but Jesus himself tells him; "What you are about to do, do it quickly" Notice that he never says, "If you do this, you will burn in Hell for eternity."
And that leads me to my final point. Destruction, and perdition do not always mean 'eternal misery in Hell'. They do also mean, 'death, and to die'; and Judas was the first of the disciples to die. This is what is meant by Judas Iscariot being given up; that Judas would die; not that he'd be tormented for eternity.
FYI: This is an exerpt from the following website: http://www.reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/
"The Greek word which is used to describe Judas’ change of mind (metamelomai) is quite different from the other Greek verb translated repent (metanoeo) which is used to describe repentance unto salvation. "Metamoeo" basically means to ‘change one’s mind.’ So it is properly translated ‘repent’ in most instances. It involves the intellect and will. Metamelomai has to do more with the emotions, and so does not indicate true biblical repentance. Judas’ repentance was not for sin as committed against God and Christ but for the consequences of sin. As Paul said, “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death” (2 Cor. 7:1)."
Well of course; Judas was probably remembering when Jesus had told them that he would give up none of them, except for the one predestined from the foundation of the world to betray him; and that was Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition.
We can't speak for a dead man, but it's possible that Judas saw no more hope, and felt that he had no choice, but to kill himself.
There are other instances of men in the Bible committing suicide, and most of them were done, because of shame of some sort.
Sanctus Vesania you have gotten my points exactly but you missed one important one. See Matthew 27: 3-6 Before Judas dies, he repents. Thus Jesus pleading prayer for forgivness,before he dies would cover Judas too. and once resurrected we are told that Jesus death is for the remission of all sins of those who believe in Him as lord and saviour.
Dave, I hope you understand the word "repent" posted above, when it came to Judas. Yes, Jesus died for ALL mankind, but His atonement is only applicable to those who believe in Him as Lord and Savior, as you stated. Amen.
Dear Judah's Daughter: I sincerely hope that you take no pleasure in attacking Judas a man who is dead. The Bible reports clearly in Matthew 27: 3-6 That Judas Repented his sinfulness for handing over an innocent Jesus to the High Priest.
Also if you look up on the internet,Judas Iscariot's unpublished Gospel or Epistle if you will, you will discover that Judas is reported by historians from these writings to have been Jesus best and closest friend, and the only one of His Apostles or Disciples that Jesus intrusted his most private thoughts to. I hope this clears up your confusion towards Judas.
You might find it interesting to learn that the 4 Gospel printed in the Bible are not the only Gospels written by the followers of Jesus, even Mary Magdelaine wrote a Gospel.
While I respect there are "other books" out there, they were not included in the canon of scripture for a reason? It would make it all the more grievous a sin for Judas to be so close to Jesus and yet be called a "traitor". I'd rather take Jesus' word as truth than anyone else's. If you read the Greek words for repent, they are different. When a prisoner gets the death penalty and is in grief over the consequence rather than the crime, that is not repentance unto salvation. If he is repentant in his heart over the fact he sinned and submits to God's forgiveness, indwelling Holy Spirit and Lordship, he is saved ~ even though he may still have the death penalty on earth. There's a difference; and the former is the case with Judas. One who is repentant unto salvation would not take his own life right after his conversion...common sense. Did Paul go out and kill himself when he repented, because afterall, he killed God's children before he knew better? God used him; and God could have used Judas as an Apostle.
You appear to have a very narrow and closed mind on this subject. One more time. Our Father God, Jesus the Son of God, Both God are omnipotent and omnicient meaning the know all past present and future. Before Jesus Birth Jesus would already know that Judas had been the one selected to fulfill the prophetic scriptures of the Old Testement. Jesus would have already known that Judas would require a special dispensation for what he Judas was going to have to do and how Judas would be perceived as a traitor. Even at the last supper Jesus knew what Judas had to do and dismissed him telling him "That which you must do, do it quickly."
Now since God is Love and since Jesus as God is love and since Jesus died for the remission of all sins not just some sins, then it stands to reason that the sins of Judas are already upon Jesus, and since Judas repented from his sins, through the spilled blood of Jesus, Judas is saved. If this doesn't help you then I can take this no further.
Dave, I have one question for you: Do you believe God created hell and will send people there, those who reject Him?
Excellent hub, I have a rough draft on this and I have been saved the time to research it further as what you have done runs along side my intentions. I hit the hard point after reading that a testament of Judas was discovered. It carbon dated to 300 to 400.
I read in the book of John that as soon as Christ gave the sop to Judas, Satan entered into him. So if you believe in demonic possession, as pointed out here, Satan took control,It doesn't say whether or not Satan left Judas after the deed, but I think it is possible as Judas cast the coins back and repented, so I can see Satan getting his joy from entering and exiting just to gloat in the reaction of Judas. It's all just my thoughts of possibilities.
Along the way I'll wonder, but in the end, I will know. I have to give way to the scriptures but whether or not Judas is saved or lost is not relevant to my being saved or not. I do how ever enjoy conversation upon the scriptures and the places we can take pause and think about. So I appreciate this hub as one of those places and thank God it took place to purchase my mountain of sins past and the ones to come.
Dear Judah's Daughter, of course I believe in Hell. If one believes that there is a Heaven for the believers, then there must also be a Hell for the Non-believers, and if one believes that The Holy Bible is the word of God,and that the Holy Bible holds only truth, then one must accept John's accounting of all that is written in Revelations, the final accounting in the Holy Bible.
Dave, I am relieved you haven't been deceived by "universal salvation" doctrine. As 50 Caliber said, whether Judas is in hell or not is not contingent upon our salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Be blessed.
Judah's Daughter, even though at times I felt like you were attacking me, As long as I have God and The Holy Bible on my side, attack away. My armour is The Lord Jesus Himself and His words, are my sheild. I can stand fast in the face of my enemies, knowing that Jesus will defend me.
Please understand that I don't intend to attack anyone personally, but rather reason what the Bible says next to what is being presented. Forgive me, if you felt attacked. There are a couple of universalists here that believe ALL will be saved, including Satan and his angels. Just so you know where I'm coming from. I apologize if you felt attacked; it was not my intention.
Dear Judah's Daughter, Apology accepted. Maybe it was just Satan attacking my sensitivity trying to weaken my resolvein The Bible and Our Lord Jesus.
[ With the exception of Satan and his angels ] No man who accepts Jesus as their saviour confesses their sins,truly repents,and is cleansed in His Holy Blood of Jesus will be turned away from salvation. Hell or The Lake of Fire is for Satan and his followers, and all that are truly evil and refuse to accept Jesus as their Redeemer.
JD;
I believe in universal salvation for all MANKIND. There is a huge difference from that to what you're proclaiming I believe.
Please, stop assuming things about people who have different beliefs from you.
Thank you.
Sanctus, I didn't say who in these comments believe that way, respectfully. Because Universalists don't believe in hell, where are Satan and his minions supposed to end up? Some Universalists therefore believe Satan and his angels will be saved, too. I haven't ever heard you say the latter ~
This is probably not the right forum to dicuss this, but here's a critical thought ~ since Revelation explicity states that the Antichrist, the false prophet, Satan and all whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire, God just pulls mankind out after a time and leaves Satan and his minions there? That's a bit contradictory, don't you think?
JD;
You know how I feel about this entire thing. I'm writing a hub now about my views of this.
Hi Dave, thanks for the information, I will remember that, TC, Maita
Dave, Hi, please don’t think I’m attacking you, but just take a look at what you have written.
You say that you have God, The Holy Bible and Jesus’ Words are you armor, but then you draw your conclusions from extra Biblical history books, that Jesus didn’t recognize as being inspired by the Holy Spirit to have them included in canon, …to make your doctrine?
Again, you say you use the Bible and Jesus’ words, which you credit to be omniscient, but then when confronted by the fact the Greek word he used ‘metanoeo’ (means repentance unto salvation), when it is pointed out to you that you base you interpretation on the word Matthew was inspired to use by the Holy Spirit ‘metamelomai’ (to change one’s mind) you feel you are being “attacked” because Scripture doesn’t line up with the way you think, may I humbly ask, …who is wrong here, you or Jesus?
May I suggest you take your Strong’s Concordance and look at the word repent 3338 (metameloma) the 5 times it is used in the New Testament and you will see that the signification is to change one’s mind and then look up repent 3340 ‘metanoeo’ the 32 times it is used in the New Testament and you will find Jesus used this word repent 3340 (repentance unto salvation ) on many occasions, but never once did He use repent 3338 (to change your mind).
Again, please don’t think I’m attacking you, it’s just how are we supposed to believe you and have confidence in what you write when it is pointed out that you misinterpret Scripture and rather than looking to see if it’s true you claim to be attacked?
What JD and I have done is not judging you, but rather we shined the light of God’s Word on what you have written according to Acts 17:11 and 1 Thess 5:21.
Humbly,
Gene
Gene ~ I stand in agreement with you.
Just Passing Through, My Faith is based upon My God, My Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and God's Word, as recorded in His Holy Bible. These are God's words, recorded by Man, in several different languages, and then later, trans-scribed by others. The books used by man today, including my Strong's Concordance, are written with a more modern interpretation than may have been meant or applied, at the time of the original writing. There are many Gospels, Epistles that were written by all of Jesus Apostles, and Disciples of Christ. The fact that Matthew,Mark,Luke,and John's,Gospels are the only one appearing in The Bible, does not mean that other Gospels, don't exist, merely that they were not included. It could be that these documents were not able to be fully transcribed, due to their illegibility, and therefore not incorporated into The Bible as we know it. Since neither you or I have access to the original parchments,nor do we have the full knowledge of what was written, or how it was meant to be interpreted, all we can do is to rely upon the correctness of others. For instance there is the gospel of Judas himself,the gospel of Mary Magdelaine,even though they were not incorporated in The Bible, does not mean they do not exist.
Dave,
This has nothing to do with your faith; it’s a question of interpretation.
As far as the transcribing goes I think all modern day Bible translators are in agreement that the transcripts we have used to print our Bibles are accurate since the discovery of the Qumran Scrolls and the comparisons that have been made.
This also is not about the existence of extra-Biblical works, it’s about interpreting the Greek Language with which we ARE certain of it’s usage in the New Testament. The texts used to translate our Bibles can be found on the Internet, it is from my study of these original texts and the reliable translation work done by Vincent, Robertson and Thayer that has led me and others to try and show you the usage of the two ways repent is used in the New Testament.
I have read articles written by historians of the time of Jesus and they are not in agreement with what you are saying the relationship was between Jesus and Judas, so who’s right? Fortunately we can go directly to the source, the person that knew Judas the best.
Dave, Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and they follow me, myself and others of His sheep have heard His voice in this matter, Jesus said in John 17:12 that Judas was “lost,” that means we don’t need any extra-Biblical sources or books to debate the matter, if they don’t agree with what Jesus said then they are wrong and not God.
May I suggest you test your faith in God’s Word, following Paul’s commandment to approve all things and take your Strong’s and read the 86 times the word ‘lost’ is used in the New Testament and then the difference between the way repent is used will become clear, …Judas is lost, it’s not ME saying that, again, …that’s what JESUS said.
I want you to know I’m not attacking you, I’m following James admonition to humbly correct a brother, I hope you can see that.
Gene
Gene thank you for correcting me on the usage of a "Dictionary" Fact of the matter is though you missed my entire point, as stated in the first four paragraphs of my Hub. Our Father and Jesus are both God. God is Omnipotent. God is Omniscient. God knows everything Past,Present,and Future.....Therefore God Pre-destined that Judas would be the one chosen to hand-deliver Jesus to the High Priest.
I cannot believe that My God would hand pick someone to do such a thing, fully aware that yes this would fulfill Bible Prophecy,but in doing so would cut off the possibility for that person to have a meaningful relationship with God. God knew even that Judas would commit suicide after handing over Our Lord. It is inconcievable for me to accept or believe that my Omniscient,Omnipotent God would condemn Judas to eternal separation from His God, and eternal damnation, because Judas fulfilled his pre-destined obligation to fulfill the Old testament prophesies.This was a pre-destined task deemed necessary by God and God selected Judas to fulfill this task. Either God your God and my God is a just God or he is not. I believe God is Just.
Dave, isn’t this the point you are trying to make:
"Thus Both God and Jesus, would have known that Judas was pre-destined as the one to flfill the prophecies of the Old Testament, and more, how it was to be carried out, down to the exact moment."
"It would only make sense, with this being said, that God and Jesus, would not ask of any man to do something sinful, that would cost them their opportunity to be with God."
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
You state that Judas was pre-destined to his role, that the Father and the Son looked down, from their vantage point in Eternity, through time and said this is the man we are going to use for this dastardly deed.
Is that correct?
Then you make your conclusion about the eternal destiny of the man using human logic?
Is that correct?
Remember, James tells us our human wisdom, yours, mine or anyone’s, about spiritual truth is of this world, sensual and demonic.
By using the word ‘thus’ you are making a conclusion, however your ‘re confusing omniscience with pre-destination.
Omniscience is God knows everything that will happen before it ever happens, He know all things.
Pre-destination is saying the usage of someone or something is pre-determined before the object pre-destined comes into existence or acquired.
The only pre-destination spoken of in the Bible is that the Elect, those born again, those that have the God-given right to call themselves children of God, are pre-destination to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
There isn’t a verse in the Bible that says God chooses some for Heaven and some for Hell. I agree with you on that point if it were true it would be difficult to follow a god that would do that because it would be fickle and not Just, we would be constantly wondering if it would change it’s mind about us.
But that is not the God of our Bibles, the True and Living God, He is Just and He made the rules that won’t change, whosoever will come, the invitation is to all men, after we accept His invitation, then in His Omniscience we were fore-known (not pre-destined) from the foundation of the world.
The Father and the Son knew in Eternity what Judas would do with his life; it wasn’t pre-destined anymore than yours or mine, Judas lived and fulfilled his sinful desires. If you think different then consider this, your life isn’t finished, what if you are pre-destined, in one week or one month or one year to do some dastardly deed that would disqualify you from Heaven?
You see Dave, that is not the Salvation that is promised to us in the Bible, Old Testament or New, so we don’t have to believe that Judas was pre-destined, we don’t have to be confused about omniscience and pre-destination and we can continue to believe and live in the hope (Heb 11:1) that God is Just and will fulfill His promise to save us because Jesus said He would never leave us or forsake us. We are told that Jesus is the same yesterday, today or tomorrow, if we believe in pre-destination and Judas was pre-destined then we live in fear, if and only if He is Just can we have peace and joy.
May I continue on the subject of the two words used for repentance? The word used to change one’s mind, there are a lot of those kinds of people in the Hub, they changed their mind about God and think they know Him, however the word used for repentance to salvation are people that have left all behind and follow Jesus, this kind repentance comes from a changed heart and to a person because we are saved.
Have a good day in the Lord brother,
Gene
Gene I believe that My God knows all and has pre-destined my life right down to the day I die....and beyond.
I guess you and I will not see eye to eye on this matter, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree about this. You might want to discuss our opposite points of view with RevLady or with Unchained Grace who both write on Hub Pages.
Sorry Dave, I can't agree to disagree with you, that is humanistic New Age doctrine, you don't find that in the Bible.
Jesus tells us we shall know the Truth, there is no gray area, it's either black or white, darkness or light, the Blood of Jesus Christ is too precious for any ambiguity.
Guess we will just have to wait until the end to see what Jesus meant by His words.
I won't interfere on you hub any more.
In Christ's love,
Gene
Gene, you've done the right thing. James 3:1 states, "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." We are trying to protect you, Dave. That's what brethren in the Lord do. God be with you and shine His light upon you.
what can i say dave, you did a hub that will start a new ideology. hmmmm Something that the truth will be revealed at the perfect time. IN HIS TIME.
A time that when we will face him. But for now Lets focus on Christ, the salvation he offered to us. Lets traesure that gift and enjoy the victory.
Hopmoney wizard I do not believe I started a new ideology. I merely set my focus on God and His Godly powers,points that Christians should already be aware of and then tied that to the fact that Judas showed regret and remorse for his action of turning over an Innocent man. I wrote this to open the eyes of others, who have Judas already condemned and in Hell, when he might be in heaven with the other Apostles.
Judas was pre-destined by God to do what he did. There was no betrayal even Jesus told Judas to go and do what he had to do quickly therefore Jesus knew in advance as God what was coming.I believe Judas was forgiven and is with the other Apostles already in Heaven.
Wow. I just discovered you recently, because I have a similar article on my home page, and your "related topic" popped up after I published it. I'm not saying Judas will be saved, but I'm supposing that he might not be as condemned as some may think:
Matt. 19:16-21 gives me the idea that there is "Salvation," and then there are "treasures in heaven." Before the rich young ruler said his piece in verse 20, Jesus had already promised him "eternal life" with the answer he had given (keep the commandments). Had the young man walked away at that point, we can assume that he was going to be saved. But after v. 20, Jesus learned that perhaps the young man wanted more, so Jesus then outlined what he should do to get "treasures" and "perfection:" make some sacrifices and follow Jesus. It could be that Judas forfeited these "treasures" when he did his thing, and that's why Jesus referred to him as being "doomed."
If Judas was chosen from the beginning, he then should have known what he was forfeiting. He had probably been shown what his reward would be in the end, and perhaps he is the type of guy that would be happy there, for we all vary in preferences. Furthermore, any place prepared by God has to be a greatly satisfying place.
SamAntone,my brother, thank you for your comments. As for Judas forfeiting anything, before he took his life He gave back the 30 pieces of Silver and repented having delivered an innocent man to the chief priest.
Jesus last dying breath, he says "Father forgive them for they no not what they do." This prayer would have included Judas too.
The proof about Judas being Pre-destined to perform his assigned task can be found in the following scriptures.
John 11:25, John 14: 6, John 13:2-3, Matt 20: 18-19,
Matt: 26:2, Matt:17:22-23,Matt 26: 21-25 especially the quotes from Matthew.
Just a lil' side-bar, Dave ~ the money Judas gave back was considered "blood money" and "dirty" according to Jewish Law. Just a little bit of trivia.
Judah's Daughter, You can put what ever name you wish to on it. The fact of the matter is though Judas Repented of his sins. This is Jesus prime requirement for forgiveness that and acceptance of Jesus as The Christ, and since Jesus is the one to do the forgiving, not the Jews, who actually need forgiving in the worst way even today as they do not acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour, I believe Jesus knowing of Judas Pre-destined position would be more than willing to forgive one of his most trusted and closest of Apostles for what Judas was compelled to do by God The Father as well as by Jesus.
"Satan entered Judas" (Luke 22:3; John 13:27) does not point to him "being compelled by the Father as well as Jesus". Be blessed.
Judah's Daughter Satan and his devils and demons have entered into millions of people throughout the years. Jesus expelled many, His apostles reported doing the same. The fact of the matter is though, Judas repents of his sins. We do not know if at that point Satan left Judas. You seek to attack truth with scripture as it suits you. You seek to take certain scriptures out of context to fit your theory. This is how Satan chooses to work, trying to confound the weak-minded, but I am not weak-minded Judah's Daughter.
To quote Jesus "Get the behind me Satan."
You refuse to accept the difference in the word "repent" as clarified above. Satan didn't leave Judas, for he killed himself. You should take your accusations of me and put a mirror up to them, brother. Satan doesn't confound the weak-minded; that's backwards. It is God who uses the weak to confound (shame) the "wise". Don't rebuke me ~ the Lord rebukes all who are false, and I am not teaching falsely. Who stands to accuse me, but Satan himself.
Your definition of repent must be different than mine. Repent is to admit wrong doing correct the error if possible and ask forgiveness which Judas does.
Dave, The English language does not explain the meaning of repent; you must look it up in the Greek. In Judas' case, it was the word "metamelomai", not "metamoeo". Both words mean "repent", but have differing definitions. I suggest you read up on several commentaries about this specific case by reputable Bible scholars on biblos.com. Here is the link: http://biblecommenter.com/matthew/27-3.htm This confirms what is written in my comment here three weeks ago. Be blessed, brother.
Sorry for interrupting but I have always been curious about Judas in the sense of...If God knew Jesus was predestined to die on the cross so that we could be saved then was Judas also predestined to be his betrayor in order for this to occur?..Someone had to betray Jesus for this to take place. My question is.. was Judas chosen by God or was he given free will? and if given free will what would have happened if no one had betrayed Jesus? How would this have been carried out? We know that someone had to betray Jesus so if Judas was the chosen one then should he not be forgiven? Someone had to do it. Just curious while you are on the subject. Thank you!
I can see through reading your comments that Judas was predestined to betray Jesus and given free will. I also see from everyday mom that he was also doomed. I still wonder...why Judas? God knew that satan had to over power him in order for this to take place because it had to take place so why would God not save him?
Dear TimeHealsAll, I do not believe that Judas was doomed.
Of course Judas had free will to choose.
How often have we all been asked to do something that we know we must do, yet maybe didn't want to do for what ever the reason, so we procrastinate trying to think of reasons not to do it, but in the end we do it anyway. Think about it. How many times has God asked something of you, and you didn't think you could handle it, yet in the end you did it and it wasn't as difficult as you thought it would be, or maybe it was difficult but somehow you managed it anyway?
Judas was pre-destined to carryout the task assigned him, by both God Our Father and Jesus. Of course Satan invaded Judas just before being sent away by Jesus to carry out his assignment. Satan would find great delight to be able to think that He had somehow corrupted one of Jesus Apostles.
The fact that Judas returns the money he was paid and repents from his actions of surrendering up The True Christ, knowing what was to take place, I feel gave Jesus the right to include Judas in His last prayer to Our Father.
"Father forgive 'THEM' for they know not what they do."
This act of forgiveness,would also cover Judas, thus cleansing him, even for his act of suicide.
The quote that Everyday_mom uses draws to the attention of God Our Father, that Judas has carried out his assignment, and since that involved his own death too, that since Our Father is the one to do the forgiving, until Jesus takes His rightful place in heaven, that Judas should be included in Jesus last prayer for forgiveness.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave.
judas was already dead when jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do." Judas committed suicide and that ended any chance for redemption that judas might have sought. Jesus said "did i not pick you and one of you is a devil". I dont believe in satan or his devils but there is no chance of devils being saved. Judas was picked not because Gods power made judas betray jesus but because judas was just plain and simple a bad person. Every time judas said something he was complaining, "should not this oil have been sold and the price, etc". Some ppl never "get it". They hear and are told and witness awesome stuff but it just doesn't sink in. Judas was a bad egg plain and simple. You can't say god made him bad or gods power made judas betray jesus. Judas betrayed jesus because judas was a bad person. Plain and simple. No salvation for judas, he freewilled betrayed jesus, yes he felt sorry afterward, but it was a human sorry (i got caught) kind of sorry because a truely repentant person realises that repentance means 'changing your life around' not realising your wrong and killing yourself. There is no short cut to heaven, loving jesus is the only way to god and heaven and life immortal and judas clearly did not love jesus. Even though you think that jesus asking forgiveness for the crowd was sufficient, it wasn't. This wasn't an induced salvation upon the masses present (which judas wasnt present, he was already dead and at the bottom of the valley of hinnon). This was jesus being compassionate. Jesus didn't put salvation upon the masses he asked this sin be forgiven but everyone there had other sins that weren't forgiven. They weren't asking for forgiveness, in fact just the opposite, so if they were forgiven of this sin of crucifying jesus that still in no way entitled any of them to any special treatment from god, they were still sinners in need of true repentance.
The only predestination that god has for humankind is to be sons of god. What we do with that privilege is up to us, othewise freewill is out the window. When i accepted god i became entitled to be a son of god. If i choose at any time to return to my unsaved ways i can step out of that predestination and choose my own destiny. God doesnt favor people, he doesn't just bless people into the kingdom. We each have to earn our salvation. We can get as much from god or as little depending on how we respond to gods influence in our life. No one is destined to just hold the gate open for others to pass on by, we are all intended to live in the holy of holies and we all have equal opportunity.
Sorry to burst your blog. :0) Truth rules!
Dave, anyone can read the Bible Commentary on "Father, Forgive them, for they know not what they do". That act of putting Jesus on the cross was not counted against them, in that it could be considered unpardonable (meaning they could never be saved). All Jews must repent unto salvation (metanoeo), just like everyone, in order to be saved. Judas is not recorded as having done this.
Dear Judah's Daughter, "REPENT" "NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN LANGUAGE"....to feel sorry or self-reproachful for what one has done or failed to do; to be conscience striken; to feel regret or dissatisfaction over some past action or intention, as to change ones mind; to feel so contrite over one's sins as to decide to change or try to change ones ways being penitent; to feel sorrow or self reproach; to feel regret or dissatisfaction.
This is my dictionary definition for repent, and I'm sure that the Greeks would have to agree with one of the terms mentioned.
First of all, we need to look at the Bible Dictionary of the Greek word used. You can look up the two definitions of "repent" here:
metamoeo (salvation): http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/3340.htm
metamelomai (Judas): http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/3338.htm
There is repentance unto salvation (godly sorrow) and a repentance of regret and assurance of condemnation (worldly sorrow). Judas did not repent unto salvation as proven by the Bible Dictionary.
The Apostle Paul clarifies this difference in 2 Cor 7:1: “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death."
Dear brotheryochanan, may I suggest you read through the various comments made by others,as well as my responses to them. I defend my points and I stand by them, as they are represented by Holy Bible Scripture. I do not profess to be God, but after studying all the facts and checking Holy Bible scriptures, and believing in Pre-destination and the fact that Jesus died for the redemption of ALL SIN not just one or two types of sin, I am left with the conclusion that Judas is forgiven for all his transgressions, by God Our Father.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave Mathews
Judah'sDaughter, I think that you and I will have to agree to disagree on this. I have stated my points over and over again. I have given a dictionary definition for my understanding of "Repent" I have danced with you concerning various Holy Bible verses, yet still we do not agree. So be it.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave Mathews
brotheryochanan, You couldn't have hit the nail on the head anymore than you did! Brother Dave, this matter is not contingent upon salvation, and this is your view, though some agree and some don't. The ones who don't agree confirm the truth written in the original language of the Bible, not based on English or an American Dictionary. It is just our duty as your brethren to try to communicate what we are obligated to. Be blessed.
God be with you Daughter of Judah!
Judas, was a man. All earthly man was sinful.
The point in question: Judas would have also received the promise, even as Adam did, even as you or I have and those yet born will have.
It is not our obligation to comb the scriptures seeking a truth, as the priests & scholars of old. We are simply called upon to BE LIVING Vessels of the Word aka Living Epistles, Living Testimonies.
For what good is a dead testimony. It is only an obituary mourned by others, mocked by some and overlooked by even more. But a living testimony is powerful, eternal, invincible, one with the Fullness of All...
just a lil bit of love nugget.
Twenty One Days, you make a great point, actually several.
It was my intent with this Hub to try and remove the stigma attached to Judas. I feel I was sucessful in my endeavours. Those that wish to Damn Judas should remember one of my favourite quotes from The Holy Bible, "Judge not lest Ye be Judged.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave Mathews.
Dear sir,
You will do well in life.
As a servant of My God and Our God, if I can manage to reach just one lost soul and help to return him back to Our Father, than my efforts are successful and I Honour My God.
Thanks for an inspiring Hub, it is always good to look at yourself when you feel like judging anyone, even Judas!
Since Jesus teaches "Judge not lest ye be Judged." How can any one person Judge Judas for anything?
Sincerely,
Brother Dave Mathews.
judge not.. means also to pass a sentence upon, but we can make conclusions about situations and if need be, consider an action to be taken, being christian does not make us helpless to correct a work of darkness or take a brother before the elders for a wrong they continually do or kick a person who sleeps with his fathers wife out of the church.
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
So how come judas is regarded in better esteem than this person? The irony of judas' betrayal is that judas betrayed jesus with a kiss. A kiss is deemed a show of respect to the rabbi, so not only did judas willfully betray jesus he lied to his face intentionally. Im sorry but hubs like this insist that the devil will get a chance at forgiveness. Delete this hub.
brotheryochanan, excuse me, but you give me quotes from Who knows where, no book,chapter, or verse to go along with it so that I can check the quote to see how the content applies, and check the context of your quote. I do not know even if these quotes are from the Holy Bible or not. If you bothered to not only read through my Hub itself but also the many comments I addressed and answered scripturally, you would have discovered that I have told others and I will now repeat my self,AGAIN.
Judas was pre-destined by both God Our Father and Jesus to be the one to fulfill Bible Prophesy. Judas could do no other than what He did, it was not a betrayal.
As for the "Kiss" Firstly Judas and Jesus were brother, and as you say, Jesus was Judas Rabbi, teacher. As a form of respect he greets Him with a kiss as it was an expected normal way to greet someone like Jesus to show respect, also the Jews coming to take Jesus would easily know how to distinguish The Rabbi from some other follower.
Lastly, Judas after realizing that he had given over an innocent, man, a man who was truly "The Christ" returns to the chief Priest, gives back the 30 pieces of silver and repents his mistake. Therefore Judas meets the criteria for forgiveness. His last act, is one of sorrow and grief for having made such a mistake against his brother, and Jesus prayer to the Father for forgiveness for all those involved in His crucifixion, would also include Judas.
As for Satan, and forgiveness is concerned, The Book of Revelaation, categorically says No Way! He will definitely be thrown into the Lake of fire along with the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet.
Sorry my brother but this Hub stays, and the next time you feel like trying to take me to task, please Quote Book Chapter and Verse from the Holy Bible so that I can check both context and content. One last thing, unless you are God or Jesus, you do not have the authority to demand that I delete any Hub I post. I back up what I say and I stand by what I say,in its defence.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave Mathews.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 for the previous hub in response to not judging.
im gonna open an catholic debrainwashing school. You are unmoveable and incorrect. My prior response thrashes your hub. The criteria for salvation is: Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation". We have no evidence that judas confessed unto salvation, that would be "God forgive me and my past sins, come into my life and make me a holy man"(abbreviated). All we can deduce is that judas may have been feeling guilty over this one act of betrayal, but to say that after all judas' bad actions and the silence about him throughout the new testament does not make him a candidate for sainthood. With the HEART man BELIEVES unto RIGHTEOUSNESS. Killing oneself isn't getting anywhere near righteousness. Judas had been around jesus for 3 yrs he knew that killing himself was a breach of gods laws. Christians do not kill themselves, they let others do that for them lol.. cudn't resist that one.. Judas in no way lines up to the gospel at all in anything. He was a bad person to the core, selfish, greedy, unedifying, probably alone most of the time, envious of the others i suspect. And his ungodly ways took over his heart and caused him to unbelieve, because he did not discipline himself or follow any of christs teachings, jealousy, Judas had them all every bad feeling, thought and eventually they led him to betray the christ.
You shouldn't really call anybody antichrist or confusing especially where catholicism is involved lol. Ya wanna know what confusing is: Praying to mary. Elevating mary over jesus. Having the crown of thorns on mary. Mary this, mary that, praying to saints when Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility (ash wednesday) and worshipping of angels (aggelos - messenger,angel. messenger is human person. The original transcript uses the word messenger instead of angels, but thats another catholic tweak by the church of england via king james).
Jesus states:
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes unto the Father except through me."
"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do."
If God Pre-destines Pre-determines the events in our life, and if God desires all who confess Jesus as saviour and redeemer, to be cleansed,purified and return to Him as his Child, then isn't it logical that God, being Omnific, Omnipotent,and Omniscient would have already known that Judas was going to have to do what God had pre-ordained in order to fulfil the Hebrew scritpures and therefore God being God would have given a special dispensation to Judas for him doing so. God cannot condemn someone if he set the path Himself.
Sincerely,
Brother Dave
Predestination:
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".
We are predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF GODS SON, jesus. If any other thing, then the freewill aspect of mankind would be mocked. In the case of judas, killing jesus wasn't the problem the timing was the essential thing: John 6:70 "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil"? therefore jesus kept judas, a devil, a bad person, rotten to the core, nearby, to give him a sop.
Only Our Father God can stand in judgement, if anyone is to judge Judas, and since God our Father and Jesus pre-determined that Judas was to serve history in the fulfillment of the bible prophesies, how could they then condemn him for doing exactly as they had requested. God cannot and would not ask man to commit sin, sin of any kind.
Brother Dave.
Judas did not have a choice. Judas had to do what he did, or else scripture wouldn't of been fulfilled, making God a promise breaker. If demanded by God to betray him would you? And also, if you killed God...would you be able to continue to live with yourself?
Jared, If asked by God to do anything, YES! I'd do it without hesitation. Knowing that God cannot be killed because God is a spiritual being, Yes I would be able to continue living because I know that God would forgive me as I followed His Will.
Excellent observation! I think if Judas is in heaven many believers will be shocked.
Definitely an interesting perspective, and I can see where you are coming from, although I can not honestly say I agree with you 100 percent. I do believe that Judas was instrumental in our eventual forgiveness for our sins, and I will forever be thankful to him for that. That being said, I am not sure if I will get to see him in heaven or not. If he is there, then that is awesome, but I wouldn't be surprised if God has chosen another path for him.
By the way I felt your hub was very interesting and linked it to my own on a similar topic.
angela_michelle, welcome to my Hub writings and thankyou for your comment. The only way that Judas would never be forgiven is if he Blastphemed against The Holy Spirit. That is the one and only thing God will never forgive. Jesus died for the remission of all sins of all mankind provided they turned to Jesus through his sacrifice for forgiveness. You will see Judas in Heaven. The book of Revelation records that in arrival of the "New Jerusalem" we will see descending we will see 12 Gates for Jesus 12 original apostles.
Thanks for the 'link' to read this.
Very wonderful perspective here. I entirely agree that Judas could very well be in Heaven. It is known that people who commit suicide at the last moment repent and it could be too late. Judas did play a role and yes God definitley would forgive him. God will forgive ANYBODY of ANYTHING if they ask and accept/believe in his forgiveness. What a wonderful God! Good job on this, Dave. It shows how you think outside the box and how MANY CHRISTIANS DO, and we are LOGICAL!!!!! BEST, ROSE
schoolgirlforreal, I call them like I see them, and then I ask HolySpirit to enlighten me as to what truly is. I will not put fingers to keys on this lap top until Holy spirit is guiding my thoughts, for I am writing for God and to draw others to God. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." would cover Judas even in suicide. Jesus forgives all sins, not just a few here and there but all sin.
Brother Dave.
Hello Brother. I have been reading for an hour. Very interesting comments. I know Christ is the judge and he went to the cross for all our sins.
Any further comment I need to pray about. I am tired. Excellent hub brother. I love ya miss seeing your visits at my hubs. Hope to see you soon. Keep on Dave. Your work for our Lord and Savior shines. Many many Blessings. Hugs galore brother.
skye2day, thanks for dropping in on this Hub. I feel there will be a big surprize awaiting many Christians when they arrive back home in heaven, when they see Judas standing there with the other eleven original Apostles. God and Jesus wouldn't exclude him.
Brother Dave.
Yeah! But one thing for sure is that we do not know if Judas repented or not. HE was pre-dstined to betray Jesus but if he did not repent, then He is going to hell. But if he did repent, then heaven is sure for him. Jesus christ told peter that he (peter) will deny Him (Jesus) three times and that came to pass. But Peter wept and repented and became one of the pioneers of christianity of today. So therefore, so long as Judas kept mute and died...........
you know the rest.
Dchosen_01: Ooops! Yes we do know that Judas repented what he did. The Bible relates that Judas returned to the chief priest and gave back the 30 pieces of silver and repented. We also know through the scriptures that Judas realized that he had wrongfully handed over an innocent man to be crucified. Jesus final prayer as he hung on the cross; "Father forgive 'Them' for they know not what they do." would then be applied to Judas, for Jesus being both man and God as well as Judas closest friend would know Judas' heart and forgive him too.
Jesus tells us that He came not for the righteous but for the sinner.
Brother Dave.
Great hub. Returned my flagging faith abit, adding to my understanding of it all. In ancient Japan The Sho-gun when opposed to by the emporer/authority, who therefore considered in shame! was set to commit harry-Karry (excuse spelling). The Sho-Gun would always, by sense and tradition get his best friend to make sure the job was finished quickly.
In Judas' case his job being done, and most likely hating it would not want to stay around his best mate gone, his main friends at sixes and sevens with him trying to forgive, perhaps erring as human somewhat (who wouldn't their leader gone and it being said to be his fault. Though Jesus did point out that loyalty to ones orders was of utmost importance! "be quick about your work!" when Judas had a moment of doubt and felt he couldn't do it. Consider for one moment, where would he have fit into society after all that going on?
I think your sense and readiness to see through peoples dire need to cast judgement as power over others is one of your blessings. I am almost certain that Jesus and Judas along with all the other appostles etc. will stand side by side in readiness to shake your hand warmly!
And if you watch the Clint Eastwood films, particularly the 'Dirty Harry' trilogy, Judas may be Heavens answer to that! -smiles.
I have blogged, questioned on similar lines.
Best Wishes.
days leaper: You are very insightful. Your linking of Jesus and Judas as Sho-gun and best friend is accurate.
I look forward to a chat with both Jesus and Judas, when I leave earth and return to heaven. I still have questions that need answers.
Brother Dave.
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him; With all do respect Dave if suicide was a choice to get to heaven faster i believe we all would've taken the express way. You're condoning what Christ came to do, you're telling the whole world that what Judas did was the right thing, is it written for them accross seas to condemn the gospel, to kill in the name of Allah, or kill in the name of Jesus, Judas was a theif before his was with Christ, by choice like some of us today, that why the bible says in the book of Proverbs there is a way that seems right to a man Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Judas did not go to heaven here is the scriptuer to back it up Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. His own place Dave if I'm wrong or scripture would like like to go to your own place God forbid, we cannot thank that people are pre destined to die for it is writtenJohn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
you know, that to the end, i still believe that judas should be considered a SAINT, and the GREAT BETRAYER WAS " PETER" , LORD I SHALL FOLLOW YOU TO PRISON, OR EVEN DEATH, YET THE BASTARD DENIED HIM 3 TIMES! PETER YOU OLD CROOK ,MAY YOU BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert: What you say about Judas is more than rigth, but please do not use foul language or curse others on my site. It is sinful to do so and I do not like it on my site.
Dave, this is a most beautiful and impassioned plea for Judas. He played an important part in this most important event, that is true. But could it be that he was chosen by Jesus because our Master knew the heart and weakness of Judas?
Suicide is not a pretty thing. It is full of victim and ego -- and I truly believe that ego is the essence of all evil in this world. Suicide is all about the self (selfishness, ego). Suicide is the ultimate in separation from all that is good; much as taking the Forbidden Fruit was the initial separation of man from God.
My heart goes out to Judas and all who have done similarly. I grieve for their suffering and torment, but one does not approach the gates of Heaven wearing such selfishness. I've been trying to cleanse myself of my own ego and know too vividly how difficult it is. Anyone who makes it is my hero and an inspiration to us all.
Bless you Dave, for your compassion. You continue to inspire us all with your lovely writing.
lone77star: I believe that suicide is a part of mental illness and that any person who carries out such an act is not in their right mind. It is a part of their mental illness that needs to be adressed.
i have read a couple of statements and although i understand where some readers are coming from I dont think Judas went to heaven. in matt 26: 24 jesus said it would have been better if judas was'nt even born. God did'nt make judas betray christ, and judas didnt go to hell because he betrayed christ. It was simply prophisied and judas allowed saten to use him as a pawn to fulfill that prophisy. Judas didnt go to hell because he betrayed christ, he went to hell because he didnt repent. Jesus knew that he would'nt although he was offered the same opportunity everyone else was. peter messed up to and he repented, but judas hung himself
bro woods: There was no betrayal.God chose Judas to be the one to help fulfill the prophesied scripture.
As for Judas not repenting you are wrong. The Bible teaches us that Judas returned the thirty pieces of silver to Caiaphas and repented his actions. Jesus last words on the cross were;"Father forgive them for they know not what they do." This covered Judas also so Judas never saw a moment in Hell.
I see a lot of mixing the concept of prophecy with commandments.Prophecy will happen as its stated in the word of God regardless of our day to day actions. Just because Jesus knew ahead of time does not mean Judas was commanded to sin. I believe Jesus would be close to Judas because he knew his heart and his fate and out of mercy and empathy would truly desire for Judas to choose otherwise, but prophecy being what it is then it was going to happen regardless. Let me explain the difference between prophecy, I.e. destiny versus our actions. If my destiny is to travel east, I can do that in two ways 1) to travel east or 2) travel west.
To put it one additional way, if I drop a ball and it falls to the ground, did I command that ball to fall to the ground? Or did the nature of the ball in its gravirational environment pull it to the ground? Likewise, Judas' destiny is dictated by internal desires to betray friends for money. Not to be too harsh on Judas because everytime we sin we hammer the nail once more into His flesh.
Hopeful_watcher: I see your confusion. The prophets prophesied that the Messiah, was to be handed over by another and tortured and killed. This is what God Himself revealed to His prophet. Thing is though anything God reveals to a prophet will become truth and fact for it is God who wills it to be so.
To fulfill the prophesy someone had to be pre-chosen by God and by Jesus to be the person who would point out Jesus to the priests and soldiers in order to fulfill God's prophecy. Jesus knew that that person was Judas. Jesus knew that Judas would do it for money for that too was fore-told to the prophets. Jesus knew that Judas would repent for having done what he did and feel guilty because Judas knew it was blood money, and yes, Jesus knew that His friend and confidant out of remorse for his actions would take his own life as this to was fore-told to the prophet.
Therefore when Jesus is on the cross and cries out to God for God to forgive them, Jesus was including Judas and if Judas has been forgiven by Jesus, then Judas is sanctified and is in heaven with Jesus.
To follow your analogy: If I am God and I drop a ball from heaven, I need not see it fall to know that it has fallen. As God I can drop it with my eyes closed and know that it fell.
Therefore if I am God, and I declare that Jesus will be handed over by a friend to be killed, as God I need not see it happen to know that it did, because I am God and it is my "Will".
this is why i feel sorry about Judas, he is given by God a very complex job that people interpret differently. some people are (I am sorry for this) too simple minded as to see only the incident where he betrayed Jesus.
after much consideration, I believe that Judas is in heaven but guilty for betraying Jesus. I can't elaborate much on this matter but I summarize what I mean: Judas betrayed Jesus, Judas felt guilty and repented, he hanged himself out of guilt (is wrong but I understand the pain he might have felt).
however, I am open to more interpretations since we can't really depend on human knowledge alone. we can only make conclusions so as to make us better people for others. in the end, God will reveal to us all the sinners and all the people who are righteous as what i have read in some kind of gospel.
god bless us all, and hopefully, Saint Judas Iscariot.
4fhj7: How can you possibly believe Judas betrayed Jesus when Judas was chosen of God and of Jesus to be the one to surrender Jesus to the priests and soldiers. It was requested of God that Judas do this to fulfill prophetic scripture, for the scripture all of it had to be exactly fulfilled.
Did Judas commit the Unpardonable Sin? NO!
In Matthew 12:22-32 we read about those who committed the Unpardonable Sin! We also should study verses 31-32 prayerfully when studying the Sin of Judas.
Jeremiah 8:8 & the Book of Esther!
Jews & historians state that the Book of Esther is a Farce, a Comedy & did not happen.
Now compare 2 Timothy 3:16 with this fact!
Lion of Judah try to discount the other gospels,the reason they where not included is simple they said man did not need to go through any intermediary for his relantionship with God,and the fledgling catholic church constantine was starting did not want that so they where labled as heresy and hidden away,we are just now beginning to learn the truth and not this catholic distortion of history.
With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood. Acts 1:18-19
So did he hang himself or did judas fell on his head and burst open Matt or acts?
Pilot: It was the Jewish head priest that bought the "Field of Blood" not Judas. The bible records that Judas hung himself out of his guilt for handing over the innocent Jesus, but still Judas is covered for that under Jesus prayer to Our Father to "Forgive them for they know not what they do."
Thks but you saying matthew is more accurate than acts then? Why does acts say judas died falling on his head. If you hang yourself you cant fall on your head?
Please supply the scripture in acts that says this? I am not aware of it.
How is Judas I. a saint?
How is Judas not a saint. All of Jesus apostles are considered saints in the eyes of God, Judas too as Judas is also an apostle and is in heaven with the others.
when in doubt we are instructed to consider what would jesus do, i believe i am a child of God as are you, I am strong in areas of my life and weak in others as most can relate. I have a difficult time understanding the concept of hell. Forgiveness is one of my, if not my most positive quality, for this i am extremely grateful. My question is this, i truly forgive others without any strings, sometimes it takes time. I find that like myself people are erroneous some capable of the unimaginable. Jesus instructs to "do unto others..." and I cannot exempt myself from the possibility that I too am capable of the seemingly impossible, in unimaginable circumstances. My question is this, I am able to forgive the "unforgivable", over some time I can truly take tragedy and conceive of a possibility that leads me to empathy. It may be inaccurate but it allows me to take notice of what i may be capable of in a given situation taking into consideration infinite possibilities. I have pondered the idea that the "end" may occur only when ALL of us (his) children have been granted God's forgiveness. That our time on earth is our father patiently waiting, that no child be left behind or spend eternity in hell. The God of my understanding forgives far far beyond what I am able to even conceive. I have difficulty conceptualizing that our father who sent his "only begotten son" for our salvation would deny any one of us his grace. It must be of course of our own will and I trust that he who knows the number of hairs on my head has little concern of how ever long it may take, to ensure that ALL of his children are saved.
wwjdwwjd: If we look at scripture we can conclude one thing for certain about "Hell" REVELATION:20:14;KJV. tells us the following:
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." If hell were the place of spiritual destruction everyone think it to be, and not merely a holding place for lost spirits, why would it need to be cast anywhere?
First and most importantly we must establish and understand that we are immortal spirit beings, temporarily inhabiting a physical mortal body.
Therefore if hell itself is cast into the lake of fire, we can then safely believe that hell is not the place of eternal damnation, but the lake of fire is.
It is my understanding through this scripture in REVELATION, that hell is for the sake of a better term, a holding place where those who have died, without knowing about God, without knowing about Jesus and His teachings would be held, awaiting Jesus.
Jesus will dispatch his angels to this holding place and each spirit will be informed of God and of Jesus and His teachings, and then be asked if they willingly accept God and Jesus. Those answering yes will be raised up immediately to be with Jesus, those who refuse will be cast into the lake of fire. This is the first part of the resurrection of the faithful and I believe this takes place prior to the "Great Tribulation".
Ghost Whisper 77 2 years ago
I think Judas begged for forgiveness-I believe God forgave him! True repentence is heard by God. Good Hub!