ABOUT SUICIDE AND THE CHURCH WHERE DOES THE CHURCH STAND NOW?

87

By Dave Mathews

JESUS CHRIST IS REDEEMER,FORGIVER, AND SAVIOUR

JESUS FORVIVENESS AND DIVINE MERCY FOR THE SINNER

CHRIST DIED FOR THE REMISSION OF ALL SIN NOT JUST A FEW OR SOME!
CHRIST DIED FOR THE REMISSION OF ALL SIN NOT JUST A FEW OR SOME!

Did Jesus die for the remission and forgiveness of all sin, or was it just some sin?

Over the years as both a Christian and as a Roman Catholic, I was taught, actually it was pounded into me that suicide was against God's Laws, and that suicide was a very cowardly and selfish act.

I was also given to believe as both a Christian and a Catholic, especially as a Catholic, that a priest would refuse to officiate at a funeral, for someone who had committed suicide, as it was a sin and therefore they were not entitled to a Catholic funeral mass or even to be buried in consecrated holy land.

I have been given reason to investigate and examine this a whole lot closer, since last week my sister Brenda had the occasion to do just that, end her own life.

I had to ask myself as a Christian, What give the Catholic Church the Right to Judge the actions of another Human being? Jesus teaches us Judge not lest Ye be Judged.  Who gave the church the right to decide, just who they would or would not perform a funeral service for, as well as a burial service? When did Almighty God relinquish His authority over man to a human?

For over fourteen long years, Brenda, my darling sister, has suffered physically, and emotionally, and mentally. It began fourteen years ago,when her husband simply walked away from his wife and two sons, abandoning them, because he was feeling trapped. Brenda thought it her fault, and created a thousand and one reasons, none of which dealt with the truth, yet she put the blame on herself.

Because of her wrongful guilt her body began physically attacking her, with ulcers, women's problems, stress, high blood pressure, asthma, hearing failure, diabetes, circulatory problems, not to mention depression, mood swings, and other phychological and emotional problems. In her last year her body was slowly shutting down, heart problems set in, kidneys were slowly malfunctioning, as was her liver.

Brenda was a physical mess, and realized through her doctors, that it was irreversible and life threatening. There was nothing modern medicine could do to help her, as a matter of fact modern medicine was killing her slowly. She was in and out of the hospital more times than I can count.

In my many talks with my sister, she expressed over and over again to me, how she was feeling helpless, how even her medications were causing toxic effects in her system, and attacking her, so that her doctors, had to one by one, withdraw her meds, leaving only her pain killers. She carried on like this for over half a year longer, until she simply gave up the fight.

For those Christians wondering if Brenda relied on prayer at all the answer is yes, Brenda was a Christian and a Catholic, as well, plus having me, her oldest brother to help her keep going. Maybe if she had called her big brother that last day I might have changed her mind once again but maybe that's why she didn't call me.

So for those Religious Christians who would look down their noses at my sister, saying that her suicide was a cowardly and a selfish act, let me answer that this way.

Whether in your right mind or not, it takes a lot of courage to deal with such sickness and suffering for over fourteen years without giving up  trying to carry you cross as Jesus asks, but their comes a point when the body and the mind is no longer strong enough to be able to handle the pain and the pressures. The doctors couldn't help, and I'm not even certain if God knew what to do anymore. I think the answers were all exhausted. If I am wrong Father God, Please forgive me?

I've said all of this to explain my sister's circumstances, leading up to her suicide, as well as to set the table for what I learned over the past week of a religious nature.

Not knowing or being informed, of anything different from what I was taught years ago, about how Christianity and the Catholic church viewed suicide, I talked things over with my two nephews.

We agreed that once the coroner's office was ready to release Brenda, her body should be collected, by whatever funeral home they chose, that she should be quietly cremated, that I'd speak a few words over her remains and then they could do as they chose with the ashes. We agreed to this because as far as we knew the church would not permit a decent ceremony for her.

This past Sunday was when I learned that things were changed. The church had made an about turn on their stand on suicide. I had a brief but informative chat with my pastor, because it had been 50 years since I last discussed this topic with clergy so I wanted to refresh, rather ascertain that the church's stand was still the same. It was to my surprize to learn it had changed and how much.

It appears that the Church, at least the Roman Catholic Church, had exhaustively examined their position on suicide and come to the conclusion that:

"Under the Laws of Man" in other words according to the Courts of the Land, it had been determined that to Murder, ie. commit suicide:

One had to be considered to be fully in their right mind, and fully capable of determining, right from wrong, and fully aware of their actions, for such an act.

The church at least the Catholic Church declared this to be untrue for those committing suicide and further declared that it believed Jesus would pardon such an act. In Brenda's case I feel certain that Jesus pardoned her at the moment she cried for help because she couldn't cope any longer Jesus knew her torment and suffering, as he had suffered himself. His compassion would be bountiful.

I was really surprized that the Catholic church had done such an about-face on such a touchy topic as suicide, surprized and relieved. I would have to assume though, that the Church would have to look at each case individually, for I'm certain that if it was a case where some "White collar worker" simply couldn't live with the guilt of say gambling away the Company Retirement Fund, and didn't want to be caught, it would be different.

I will now at least in my sister Brenda's situation take this one step further.

Not only do I believe that Jesus has forgiven Brenda for ending her life prematurely, I further believe that since my two nephews also suffered emotionally throughout Brenda's fourteen years of suffering that Brenda in doing what she did, was fulfilling one of Jesus quotations. JOHN: 15:13; Greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for a friend."

Brenda's sons suffered daily emotionally as the watched helplessly, the sufferings of their beloved mother. I believe that Brenda wished to end their suffering and "Laid down her life" for her sons to finally rescue them from their suffering. A true act of love.

I do not know the policy of the other Christian denominations, Baptist, Presbyterian, United Church, Orthodox, Anglican, etc.; But if their way of approaching suicide and their treatment of the dead is like what the Catholic Church used to be, then it is time for these churches to examine their church policy and get it changed.

"Judge not lest ye be judged." in matters like this only God has the ultimate right to judge whether that person committing suicide has sinned or not. Only God has the right to hold them accountable for their actions, not man.

Comments

wilmiers77 profile image

wilmiers77 Level 3 Commenter 21 months ago

Only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin which can not be forgiven.

samsons1 profile image

samsons1 Level 5 Commenter 21 months ago

you and your family remain in our prayers Brother Dave. My the very King of Glory grant you and your family peace.

Captain Jimmy profile image

Captain Jimmy 21 months ago

I will be praying for you and your family Brother Dave!

God Bless!

"Quill" 21 months ago

We remain in prayer for you and your Dave, His peace to you.

Hugs

50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber Level 7 Commenter 21 months ago

Dave, Bro' I enjoyed your take here, not to say in a smiling enjoyment but a respected honest take on a real life issue. I've been there with my questioning mind on this subject. It always leads me around to Judas and his act, one that I will have faith that is forgiven of him, and there will always be the exceptional case in the midst of all of the cases. I believe this was one of them. Thank you for your words on the matter, Dusty

CYBERSUPE profile image

CYBERSUPE 21 months ago

Brother Dave, Your sister Brenda will be added to our prayer list. Brother Dave so sorry to hear of Brenda's suffering's. GOD BLESS!!

Joe

Loves To Read profile image

Loves To Read 21 months ago

Dave i want to give my condolences to you and your family in this sad time. It is not easy to lose a loved one, especially in a case where you were like a father to your siblings. I will be praying for your peace on this matter.

Blessings to you and yours.

angel115707 profile image

angel115707 Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

So Sorry Dave about your sister,

You know the first comment it right, I have searched from cover to cover in the bible, being that I am a suicide attempt survivor ( with a slightly crooked smile the overdose caused)

there is only one unforgivable sin, and unlike old church goers say, it isn't suicide,

Jesus says even speaking against him is forgivable, but to speak against God's Holy Spirit...His utter Holiness, is completely unforgivable.

So only talking evil against God's Holy Spirit knowingly and with evil intent is unforgivable, suicide is never considered unforgivable in the Bible, ever!

lifegate profile image

lifegate Level 6 Commenter 21 months ago

You're an encouragement to me, Brother. I appreciate your stand in these so very difficult times.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Wilmiers77: Thank you very much. I was aware of this from my Bible. Unfortunately various churches especially the Catholic Church WAS teaching their version of right and wrong. Thank God they have corrected themselves sort of.

Brother Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Angel115707: I don't see any crooked smile on that angelic face, only God's beauty. I know that you are right about God's scripture. I also know that the Catholic Church was wrong.

Brother Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

samson: Captain Jimmy: Quill: CYBERSUPER: My thanks goes out to all of you for your kindness and your. They are deeply appreciated.

I thought to do this Hub as a follow up, so that other Catholic Christian Hub Members could learn as I had to learn about the Churches about-face on this subject.

Brother Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Dusty my good buddy, I am so sick of churches that say one thing one time and then turn around and say something else a few years later heading in the opposite direction. They must think that because Jesus call us His "Sheep" that we must be stupid like sheep too. Well not this one.

Bro. Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Love To Read: Dear sister being a big brother, the eldest, and also being a fill in for a parent, even though I was expecting bad news about Brenda concerning her many illnesses and organ slowdowns and shutdowns, I was not prepared to hear that Brenda was so desperate that she was ready to end it all.

Fortunately I am the strong and stubborn fighter type in my family for I had to step up to the plate one more time to help her boys through this mess.

My youngest sister stepped up too. She is a legal secretary and helped do up all of the necessary paper work to help this move along smoothly.

Brother Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

lifegate: Thank you for everything. Jesus as always is my strenght and determination. He showed me how to stand firm like a rock in matters like this. If and when the day comes that I have to stand toe to toe with satan or any of his evil followers, he's better watch out, for only he could talke my weakened sister into doing what she did, so he has to answer to me for his lies and deceitfulness causing her death. I know that vengence belongs to God, but that doesn't mean I can't give satan a piece of my mind, he deserves a good tongue lashing, and I'm just the guy to give it to him.

Brother Dave.

bjspivey-rivers profile image

bjspivey-rivers 21 months ago

Brother Dave,

I am so sorry for your loss. Your sister is with Jesus who said He would never turn away anyone who came to Him. My prayers go out to you and your family. I am glad the Catholic church has changed its position on this matter. Jesus said we should love one another, not judge one another. I pray that the Holy Spirit give you peace.

loriamoore 21 months ago

So many people still think that suicide is an unforgiveable sin. Thank you for this Hub.

Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

My prayers go to you and your family....May Jesus give you the strength to understand fully His Will for your life and your nephews life in this situation.

No church has the right to make laws for us to obey...Only God's Word is the law. I wish you peace and hope John 3:16

(PS Hillsong is one of my favorite groups...so fitting you include them in your hub..)

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

bjspivey: It only took the Catholic church 50 years to catch up to what Christians knew all along.

loriamoore: you are more than welcome and thank you for your comments.

Wealthmade healthy: If Jesus had wanted any person not included in the love and knowledge, he asks us to share with others, I sorta think he would have said so, but nobody is to be excluded, because Our Father God does not desire to lose even one of His children.

Brother Dave.

Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

Brother Dave; You cannot see me as I sit at la machine and feel for your pain is so great. You are not to blame for what happened. Your time is the here and now, your sister sleeps waiting for Christ to return...I know you hurt..I know you feel betrayed ... in many ways understand betrayal...By your Church, by life...your pain is great....

You must please hear me as I say this....Satan will try to keep you in pain and sorrow...this is his tool...Know your sister is not in pain anymore....you must not feel like it is your fault....understand our mission in Christ is to spread His Word....from His Bible, not from a Church, not from our own reasonings....it is hard too cope with, but as you know, every move we as human beings make are known by Him before we were born.....Do not let guilt, another tool of the evil one keep hold on you....

I have lost family and it hurts....but we are told by God not to mourn, cry, but just to live our life in love and peace...

You must read your Bible and not lean on the understandings and reasonings of men...and this includes the "reaaonings of the RCC..." As I stated prior to this, they have not the right nor anyone to tell anybody anything that is not of God nor written in the Bible......Listen to the tiny voice which wants to help heal your pain...Do not concentrate on inclusion or exclusion....We are each responsible in Christ and given free will to choose as you know....

Choose to not let the Church govern your feelings...only the Word in your Bible....This is the final word on

everything... Read psalms 25 and 26 knowing no matter what anyone says nor how you feel...God loves your sis...she is out of pain...

Isa 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Peace to you Bro Dave....so much peace...

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Wealthmadehealthy: Thank you for your best wishes and your advice. It is most appreciated. I am not hurt by my sister's actions, she suffered for a very long time, and in many different ways. My hurt, my anger, my sorrow, is for my two nephews. Even though they are in their twenties, they are now without a parent. Brenda was sort of like their moral compass, keeping them on the narrow path. I just hope and pray that she gave them enough guidance to keep them there. Only time will tell.

Brother Dave.

stars439 profile image

stars439 Level 7 Commenter 21 months ago

Dear Dave Mathews: God will take good care of your sister. And God Bless You Too. And God Bless Her Children.

Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

As you are all a family of believers, I know Brenda raised them well and taught them the Word...maybe you are able to help them understand the love Jesus wants them to live even in the death of their mom....Be a guide for them...they need you to be strong and help them in their walk with God for all their lives as your parents taught you.....keep them close...Blessings

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

stars439: Thank you so much for your blessing for both myself and my nephews. God be with you also and bless you.

Brother Dave.

Wealthmadehealthy: Brenda did raise them well and raised them in Our Lord too. Since we learned about Brenda's death, I have made myself available to my nephews day or night and we have sat and talked about many different aspects with regards to their faith and what has happened. They know that Uncle Dave is available for them always, no matter what the situation.

Brother Dave.

Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationR

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Wealthmadehealthy: Thank you for the loving scriptures. I especially like Romans:16:20 Satan has much to answer to God for including my sister killing herself. I cannot judge satan, but God can and will.

Brother Dave.

Liberate profile image

Liberate 21 months ago

Ohh, I Knew This Was Too Amazing To Be From Any Soul!

Hello My Brother!

Dave, I Pray You Find All The Faith To Continue To Convince Your Sisters Suicidal Thoughts Are Wrong.

I Dislike Being A Hypocrite, Though No Female Should Even Be Thinking About Such Actions, I'd Pray To Be Able To Help Her, I'd Pour My Heart And Soul Into My Writings.

Though, The Thought Of Committing Suicide, I Realized The Point Of Me Entering Hell. At First, It Didn't Bother Me, I Don't Deserve Heaven, I Have Enough Pride To Refuse It. Though, The Temptation Didn't Succeed Me, I Continued Though My Forsaken Life, Though Unfortunately The Reason I Didn't Kill Myself, Was The Simply Fact Of Me Entering Hell. I Don't Have An Excuse Anymore, Though I've Always Been Alone, And Full Of Pain.

I'm Dead Inside, I Cry To Someone To Help Me. I Disliked Being Alone, What I Would Give For A Friend Like Me.

Though, I Continued Going To Church, And I Was The Most Quite, Most Shyest Person, I Never Did Anything I Regret In Life, It Would Be The Slightest Thing, Maybe I Found $5 And Didn't Return It.

Though, I Couldn't Possibly Believe I Had A Person I Love Me, I Haven't Felt Loved, I Couldn't Possibly Believe There Was A God, My Father Would Always Put Me Down.

Though, I Searched And Searched, I Believe I Found The Love Of God Inside Me, I Decided To Spend My Life Helping People.

Even If I'm Unable To Attend Their Needs, I Shall Not Give Up. I'm A Very Persistent Person When It Comes To My faith Now, I'll Spend Hours And Hours Talking If It Just Makes Them Think.

I Just Wish To Forget All My Life, I Don't Believe I'll Ever Be Good Enough in The Eyes Of God, I Tried With My Entire Heart To Make Him Proud Of me, I Realized ... Just Like My Own Father, I'll Never Be Good Enough.

Yes, I Feel More Pain, It Kills Me Inside, Though I Won't Give Up, I'll Continue My Entire Life To Find His Love.

I Pray You're Able To Help More People, You're Truly An Amazing Person Dave.

My God Be With You, And I Pray For Your Sister.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Liberate: Reachout your hand. God is anxious to take hold and provide to you the comfort and love you need.

Brother Dave.

prettydarkhorse profile image

prettydarkhorse Level 2 Commenter 21 months ago

I agree, AMEN, God is the only one who will judge, HUGS Kuya it was you who was sent by Jesus to guide your sis, Maita

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

Ate' Maita thank you for your loving thoughts and words of kindness.

KUYA Dave.

Thesource profile image

Thesource 21 months ago

Dave, my deepest sympathies for Brenda's death.

Typically, suicides do bring certain unpleasant consequences after that life. The consequence is temporary and is not a punishment by God or "Satan". I believe it is something else that most us are not ready to understand. It has to do with the mind doing something without the soul's consent.

However, in Brenda's case nothing negative is going happen. This is because death was already on its way and her soul has already consented to leave the body soon. All she did is to help the death proceed with less pain and with dignity. Soldiers who face death under enemy torture can assist their death process for same reason.

There is no bad consequence in the afterlife.

Views of religious institutions does not concern me.

As long as she is in God's presence that is fine with me.

Regards.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 21 months ago

The Source: I completely understand and agree with your thinking. Brenda had reached the end of the line as far as her body and soul were concerned,the doors were open for her to cross over, all she did was take the final steps alone.

Thank you for your understanding,concerns, and sympathetic thoughts. They are appreciated.

Brother Dave.

CMerritt profile image

CMerritt Level 7 Commenter 18 months ago

For what it is worth, I 100% agree with your analogy. For God so loved the world, he begat His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life...God knew her heart in a personal way.

Blessings to you Brother Dave.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 18 months ago

CMerritt: Thank you for agreeing. It means alot to me. Yes God knew that Brenda's heart was bigger than a football, and that she had carried her cross and suffered as long as she physically and mentally could. I wish she had called me that morning, I might have been able through God to prevent her, but Maybe God too decided the call was of no use.

Brother Dave.

irene lubega 18 months ago

dear dave, i sent to you my heartfelt condolences and i will keep you and your family in my prayer.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 18 months ago

irene lubega: Thank you very much, your condolences and prayers are greatly appreciated.

Brother Dave.

Broxlad.com 12 months ago

Ilost my brother April 17th 2010 to sucide.

I find it so hard to get past this,I want to join him all the time,the pain is so much.

I loved him so much & I was with him 6 days before that & he was so happy I can not believe he kept his pain from me,we were so close.

He is on my mind 24 hours a day & I find it difficult to move on as the pain is so raw.

I do not see nothing ahead of me as I do not believe in a life aftr this & what my brother done verifiys this as he was such a holy person.

Where does one on go from here.

Ther is no way forward for me.

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews Hub Author 12 months ago

Broxlad: One has to realize that eventhough someone even a close loved one departs this world in death of their physical body, they still live on in their spirit which has returned back to God and to its creator. You say you are not religious and don't believe, but yet you ask which way to turn. Turn to God. Ask Him what He wishes or thinks you should do. He will guide you and give you that inner peace you seek.

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